么 or 吗, that is the question

First, an aside:

It’s bad enough when you catch yourself using the jargon you used to scorn, like in that business meeting where, in the heat of the moment, you come up with, “Right! And there will be great synergy between their brand name and our back-office capabilities.”

Right.

But how do you feel when even your jargon is outdated? Today I was just about to pose a question like this:

Is the choice of 吗 or 么 — to write Mandarin’s yes-no question particle “ma” — a register issue?

“But ‘register’,” I thought to myself, “might need some explanation. I should at least link to the Wikipedia entry if it’s good.”

Not only does Wikipedia claim my usage is outdated

Writers (especially in language teaching) have often used the term “register” as shorthand for formal/informal style, although this is an aging definition. [Emphasis mine — ouch.]

… but the same entry reminds me that “formality” is a clearer term for what I was trying to ask in the first place.

Reboot

Back to our 么 or 吗 question of the day:

Is the choice of 吗 or 么 — to write Mandarin’s yes-no question particle “ma” — a question of formality?

I’m talking about this type of sentence:

你去么?= 你去吗?
Nǐ qù me/ma? = Nǐ qù ma?
Are you going?

During the last couple of weeks my eyes have been glazing over with transcripts of market research interviews. The interviews are very casual, and the 么 usage is all over them. I’d certainly seen 么 used like this before, but it had always struck me as a text message kind of usage, like “ur” instead of “your”, not something a person would type into a formal transcript, even if the transcript is of an informal conversation.

How common is 么 as the ma question particle? If only I had a proper corpus… In the meantime, the usual google search isn’t a lot of help. Because it ignores punctuation, you can’t search for, say, “么?” as a string. Anyway that would include 什么? so it wouldn’t be that helpful. Here are the number of Google hits (in thousands) on a few question tags that might serve as useful proxies:


么 version 吗 version Ratio 么/吗
好ma? 5,710
42,000
14%
对ma? 714
5,360
13%
是ma? 2,050
11,100
18%

On the other hand, if I limit it to Google Books, here are the numbers (NOT in thousands):


么 version 吗 version Ratio 么/吗
好ma? 1,296 2,750 47%
对ma? 751
1,387 54%
是ma? 1,124 2,280 49%

Clearly if the g-hit numbers are remotely plausible, my original intuition — that 么 is less formal than 吗 — is entirely wrong because you have a far higher ratio of 么 to 吗 within books, which should be a more formal context.

There’s probably some funny math here, but right off I don’t see it.

Belatedly, I started poking around a corpus that Randy suggested. It looks enticing, but the plate’s already cold on this ersatz version of a breakfast experiment, so let’s take that last gulp of coffee and call it done with a quote from Mark Liberman himself:

I venture to suggest that the kind of research represented by this collective Breakfast Experiment deserves a name. “Yes”, I hear you say, “how about ‘Computational Linguists With Way Too Much Time On Their Hands’?” No, actually, what I had in mind was something more like “Google Cognitive Linguistics”.

Writers (especially in language teaching) have often used the term “register” as shorthand for formal/informal style, although this is an aging definition.

4 responses to “么 or 吗, that is the question”

  1. I spent some time just now trying to search using question marks in various forms and various places, hoping to improve the data. No such luck.

    Anyway, I’m in no position to guess one way or another, but i wonder if there may be more to the 吗/么 distinction. Something less cut and dried as formality.

  2. hsknotes says:

    They’re not the same sound. I think you’re on track with with “ur” idea, but I think it’s something closer to “gonna” for “going to” than “gunna” for “gonna”, or where you “goin(‘)” for “going”.

  3. Dylan says:

    I associate 么 with vernacular novels… from 《燕子箋》: 霍生大笑道:「瞞不過了。店主人,我問你,我昔年在此相會的女客華行雲,在家好麼?」 … 問道:「有人麼?」 From 《红楼梦》: 我问哥儿一声,有个周大娘可在家么? … and with QQ chats, as an informal, almost dialect-y thing that nobody would say was completely standard.

  4. Syz says:

    @Hsknotes: I don’t know about the different pronunciation thing. Maybe there’s something there. So far my survey-of-friends is split 50/50 betw “no” and “some” pronunciation difference. Maybe complete schwa for 么 vs something of an /a/ for 吗.

    @Dylan: great examples, and very supportive of my original intuition on formality. Hmm, maybe the vernacular novel thing is what the google book search was picking up

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